This posting has been sparked by two posts on Steve Leher’s blog (1, 2). Specifically, Steve states that depression is a sin, a position on which he is later challenged by a reader (whom he calls ‘Bob’). Bob helpfully summarises the disagreement like this:
The basic point of disagreement we have is whether depression or manic depression are illnesses. Maybe I’m overlooking something but I didn’t notice where you said they were not that you were able to support that Biblically or otherwise to my satisfaction. It’s basically your opinion which you can have but which I can also disagree with.
Unfortunately, this discussion (like so many) boils down to definitions. In his article (PDF link) Steve borrows Robert Smith’s defininition of depression as:
a debilitating mood, feeling, or attitude of hopelessness (despair or joylessness), which becomes a person’s reason for not handling the most important issues of life.
Now it doesn’t take a genius to work out that that is sinful. Simply not handling the “most important issues of life” is (by definition) sinful. It’s also a somewhat pejorative definition. Had it read “which means a person is unable to handle the most important issues” then perhaps Bob would be able to agree with it. As it stands the definition deliberately implies that depression is not a genuine reason, it is only given as a reason.
Like Bob (I’m not sure about Steve), I do believe that there is such as thing as a mental disorder. That is, there are some people whose brains are wired in such a way as they find it difficult (perhaps almost impossible) to stop falling into deep depression (depression is of course only one example of a mental disorder). Incidentally, I am very aware that ‘wired’ is a completely inadequate word, but for the sake of simplicity I shall not try to expound it.
The reason that their brain is ‘wired’ in this way may be due to past sin (theirs, or often anothers), present sin (sinful actions or thoughts), or just their physiological makeup. Usually it is a combination of all three. Frankly to expect all brains to be wired perfectly in a fallen world stretches the doctrine of common grace far beyond all reasonable expectations.
Having your brain wired in such a way is of course, not a sin, though it may be a result of sin. This ‘wiring’ is (I think) what Bob is referring to as depression, and the reason why he got so steamed up when he read Steve’s article. For a sufferer, it means that your whole being seems to be tempting you into darker and darker thoughts, and it seems futile to resist. Again this temptation is not sinful. Temptation never is.
What is sinful, is the giving into that temptation. It may seem as though there is no escape, no other option, but there always is (1 Corinthians 10:13).
There are those whose minds often tempt them into depression. Likewise, there are others whose minds often tempt them into violence. But violence is always wrong, even if there are mitigating psychological factors (hence the British courts will often pass a verdict of ‘manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility’ for a murder committed by someone suffering from a psychiatric disorder). Whilst I am by no means suggesting that the sin of being depressed is in any way as serious as the sin of murder, I think we can draw a parallel. Succumbing to the temptation of depression is wrong, even though there are mitigating circumstances. (Of course, this does not mean that ‘being sad’ is sinful, and neither Steve nor Bob would say that. Sadness and depression are not the same.)
If I can be allowed to mediate between Steve and Bob, can I suggest the following?
- We refrain from calling depression an illness, and refer to it as a disorder. This may be semantics, but the discussion’s easier if we all agree terms
- We accept that due to physiological and psychological makeup (which may be the result of sin, or simply living in a fallen world), some people are much more prone to succumbing to depression than others.
- We accept that succumbing to depression is wrong. I think that Bob is almost accepting this when he says “Terrific! I’m not responsible for my behavior because I’m “sick”. I often wish that were true. I often end up saying I’m sorry for something I’ve done or not done while challenged by my condition.”
If we can agree that, I think the discussion can continue with even greater understanding.
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Mark - nice to see your blog. Will be adding and recommending to others… Do me a favour and drop me an email as soon as you get a chance, as I have a couple of questions for you!
Regards to your better half, and happy new year.
I find this discussion literally sickening. It is common to find analysis so contrary to either secular science or Christian charity, but rare to find them combined. Indeed to speak of the knowledge that depression is an illness as “secular science” is to lift it too high; only great youth, limited social contacts, or a pig-headed refusal to look at the world as it is could leave you with any other opinion. Can depression always be avoided by not “succumbing to sin”? Can you dodge a bullet? No? Sinner.
If you accept that succumbing to depression is like being shot (ie unavoidable), then those suffering are not responsible for their behaviour. That is not the legal position, and it is not a sensible position.
My point is much simpler, and gives more hope. I am saying that you can fight against depression (even though you may not always win). You couldn’t give that advice to someone trying to dodge a bullet.
I find fatalism perhaps the most depressing thought of all.
I wish books on things like depression had more uplifting titles. It doesn’t help those suffering or those trying to be supportive, it just adds to preconceived ideas ….
Saying that depression is a sin is utterly rediculous. Would you say that it is sinful to break one’s leg, or sinful to have a dodgy appendix?! Of course you wouldn’t. All medical evidence points to depression being involuntary. If depression was a sin, how on earth can it be treated with medication? There’s not many sins that I know of that can be treated with medication! It seems to me that you are confusing “depression” with “feeling a bit down”, which of course can lead to people needing to “pull themselves together”. However, it is not possible to “pull yourself together” if suffering from real depression. Anyone who thinks that is obviously very uninformed and needs to do a little more research on the matter…and might I say, needs to do a little more bible reading.
I’m never quite sure whether the comments posted here are directed at me or Steve. So just to be clear about this. I’m not saying that depression is a sin. My post actually says “succumbing to depression is wrong”, and I stand by that.
Can be depression treated with medication? You can’t take ‘happy pills’ that stop you being depressed. What you can do is receive treatment which may affect how likely you are to succumb to depression. Pills won’t stop you being depressed, they can just help you fight it.
You say: “If depression was a sin, how on earth can it be treated with medication?” Let me ask you a question. Imagine someone is suffering from a severe mental health problem. Whilst suffering, the commit a terrible crime, say murder. Is it a sin? Of course. But it can be ‘treated’ in the same way that depression can.
Do I think that it’s possible “to “pull yourself together” if suffering from real depression”? Let me quote myself again, “there are some people whose brains are wired in such a way as they find it difficult (perhaps almost impossible) to stop falling into deep depression”
Let me be clear. My view is the only one that gives hope to the person suffering from real depression. Hope, because I hold that depression can be fought - depression is not like getting shot or having a burst appendix. And hope too because Jesus Christ has conquered death and sin and He offers hope to all those bound by sin and the consequences of sin.
I think you’ll find that you can take “happy pills” (as you put it) to help stop depression. Anti-depressants DO NOT stop you succumbing to depression…if they did, people would take them IN CASE they ever got depressed.
Maybe next time I “succumb” to a broken leg, I won’t bother going to A E, I’ll pray my way out of it.
Another important point is that you do not “succumb” to depression; or at least, there is absolutely no medical evidence to support this. Let me repeat myself, it is involuntary. Let me also repeat that I think you are confusing depression with “feeling down”… two very different things. I think that spending a bit of time with Christians who are suffering from depression would help clarify for you that they did not “succumb” to it, therefore sinning. That in fact it is a medical condition they are suffering from.
Finally, my apologies if you are a medical doctor and have new evidence to shine on depression. If you have, I would genuinly like to share it.
As a sufferer of chronic bouts of depression and a person of deep faith it sickens me to know there are people who ignorantly spout what they feel is the truth. When you have gone through the pain and anguish of the repetitive obsessive thoughts and despair associated with untreated depression you would understand the fact that depression the ILLNESS is not something easily controlled by simply prayer. I am a firm believer in prayer and prayer has aided in getting me THROUGH my depressive episodes but depression is still often caused by a chemical imbalance that is sometimes very difficult to pinpoint and medicinally treat. You can claim that “losing” the fight against the horrid emotional pain true clinical depression creates is a sin, however you are completely lying to yourself. I fight each time a depressive episode hits and I hope I continue to fight, but to say succumbing to depression is a sin, wow, I guess ignorance is bliss. I hope you aren’t depressed.
Alex,
I’m sorry that you sometimes suffer from chronic depression. I have sought to be balanced, but unfortunately you have seriously misunderstood me. If that’s down to back communication on my part, then I apologise. But let me put the record straight.
Firstly, you imply that I believe depression is “easily controlled by simple prayer”. I don’t. My post doesn’t offer any suggestions for controlling, treating or lessening depression. That was not it’s intention.
Second, in my post I said, “there are some people whose brains are wired in such a way as they find it difficult (perhaps almost impossible) to stop falling into deep depression” and this could be due to “their physiological makeup”. That’s very similar to some of the statements you make in your reply about chemical imbalances.
Third, you claim that I said “‘losing’ the fight against the horrid emotional pain true clinical depression creates is a sin”. Again, I didn’t. I’m not sure how losing a fight against pain can be sinful. I appreciate depression is a complex issue, and there are many things going on at the same time. But there is no doubt that serious depression often causes sinful thoughts. And sinful thoughts are sinful thoughts regardless of the cause. That’s all I’m saying.
John,
Apologies for not replying to your comment earlier. Like Alex, you misunderstand me. I guess it looks like what I said simply wasn’t clear…
That being said, both you and Alex are guilty of misquoting me. You say that you can take “pills to help stop depression” (emphasis added). I agree. In fact, that’s exactly what I said in the post you were disagreeing with! Pills aren’t guaranteed to stop depression - you can still be depressed whilst on anti-depressants.
Like Alex, you assume I think you can pray your way out of depression. Nowhere have I mentioned prayer, and certainly that prayer is the only answer. It’s not.
As usual, all this boils down to definitions. I was careful to explain that in my original post. By some definitions, depression is always sinful. Perhaps by your definition it is not.
Let me again quote myself: “For a sufferer, it means that your whole being seems to be tempting you into darker and darker thoughts, and it seems futile to resist. Again this temptation is not sinful. Temptation never is.”
I am amazed at how negatively many posters view depression. Comments like “Can you dodge a bullet?”, and “depression is involuntary” are so fatalistic as to drive anyone suffering from depression to despair. You are saying that nothing can be done about depression. There is no hope – I didn’t do anything to cause it, and I can’t do anything to get rid of it.
I disagree. Depression can be extremely serious. But, with God’s help through prayer, counselling, medical treatment, and a huge amout of emotional work, it can be fought.
Finally, there’s one serious omission from my post. Perhaps I took it for granted, but it’s worth spelling out. The omission is forgiveness and grace. God is gracious, and does forgive. If he didn’t, then I’d be as fatalistic and negative as you.
Hey, Mark. I have some questions for you.
First, I’d like to tell about my problem. I am active in fellowship, prayer, and bible study. However, I find myself deeply engulfed in listlessness and depression. I look at this world and become completely disheartened. Everything looks hopeless and my surroundings go further and further into sin. Ignorance and wickedness fill everything I see. It can range from reading the morning paper, looking on the news, internet etc., overhearing schoolmates blathering about how lustful things, and so on and so on.
What should I do? Shall I accept this world going into a downward spiral to its demise? Is it wrong to continue looking upon this world with my head hung low? Or shall I lift my disposition and condemn myself for such thoughts? Some Scripture on this problem would help reinforce your statements and give me some assurance :).
Michael,
Thanks for dropping by. Let me briefly try to answer your questions. I’m going to respond directly to the issues your facing, not give general advice on fighting depression. First, it’s vital to recognise that scripture is honest and acknowledges that ignorance and wickedness are all around us. Romans 1 is a good place to go to be reminded of that, as is Romans 3.
We need to remember that it is God who creates the “downward spiral”. Paul makes that clear in 1:26 “God gave them over to their shameful lusts”. The very enjoyment of sin is a punishment from God. The righteous hate sin and flee from it. The wicked love sin, and cling to it, even as it destroys them. I know which position I would rather be in.
But Paul’s response is not to be depressed by the downward spiral. He’s glad that man’s wickedness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly (3:5). He reminds himself that it is only God’s grace that keeps him from such sin (3:9), and that in turn reminds him of the cross, and of Jesus Christ (3:20-28). And in looking to the cross, Paul looks up. He doesn’t condemn himself (what value does that have?), but he glories in the cross, and that lifts his heart.
H. Norman Wright has an encouraging grasp on this subject. It is somewhat simplistic, but that’s goo for some of us bible school drop-outs.
the reference is in the book Single Purpose by H. Norman Wright on page 120.
As someone who personally has struggled with clinical depression for over 20 years I can say that first off no one wants to be clinically depressed. A period of depression is a far different scenario than someone who has been depressed every day for years. Anyone who suffers from it has probably read numerous books, gone to many therapists, tried some sort of anti-depressant and prayed often. Many people including myself pray very often and confess sins. I wouldnt suggest to someone with diabetes that “part” of the reason they have diabetes is due to sin.
Yes someone can commit a sin that makes them feel depressed about their actions, and our actions are always part of our lives but clinical depression isnt caused by this. John the Baptist suffered from depression, Abraham Lincoln until the day he died suffered as well and he read the bible and prayed often.
Part of why it is very difficult for people who suffer from clinical depression to cope with it is because it is “still” largely misunderstood as is evident in much of the conversation here. It is interesting to see people try to speak with so much authority on this subject and label people sinners and how “little” mercy for people who are in great pain is evident. I think as far as forgiveness. Would someone who has cancer need forgiveness for the fact they have cancer? No, being sick isnt a sin. Do people who have cancer or suffer from clinical depression have a tough time dealing with pain which can obviously make daily normal activities more difficult, yes. Do they sin like everyone else? yes. Is sin the reason someone has cancer or suffers from clinical depression? no
As far as what the correct treatment is, thats very complex. Our brain is a combination of what was given to us at birth and also is affected by the life experiences as we grow older. Many doctors and most people can only give you guidance towards what will give relief. There really is not at this time a “cure” for clinical depression. If a person broke their arm in four places, it would be compassionate to do something for them even if the only thing you could do is to give “some” relief. In the same case although there is no sure-fire cure for depression, providing a person with some sort of relief is a small victory for someone who is in great pain.
Someone may have been a perfectly happy child growing up and as they got older through no fault of their own, may be abused, neglected, raped, suffer some other severe trauma and due to this be very anxious and become clinically depressed. It is not at all because they have sinned that they became depressed. I agree it is bad to never get help and never try to deal with being in pain or suffering. An easy way to understand the right stance on this is like any other cirumstance, which is to think how Jesus would approach the subject. Surely he would have mercy. If anyone could relate to going through unfair suffering and seeing lack of emphasis on mercy towards it from the people around Him it would be Jesus. Anyone reading this who suffers from clinical depression, understand Jesus love, intelligence, and mercy is infinite. I suggest reading the Book of Job, many people who had things to say about what Gods will was and what Job was doing wrong while he was going through terrible times were the ones sinning themselves.
Depression is a widespread condition, affecting millions of people, Christian and non-Christian alike. Those suffering from depression can experience intense feelings of sadness, anger, hopelessness, fatigue, and a variety of other symptoms. They may begin to feel useless and even suicidal, losing interest in things and people that they once enjoyed. Depression is often triggered by life circumstances, such as a loss of job, death of a loved one, or divorce, or psychological problems such as abuse or low self-esteem.
The Bible tells us to be filled with joy and praise (Philippians 4:4; Romans 15:11), so God apparently intends for us all to live joyful lives. This is not easy for someone suffering from situational depression, but it can be remedied through God’s gifts of prayer, Bible study and application, support groups, home groups, fellowship among believers, confession, forgiveness, and counseling. We must make the conscious effort to not be absorbed in ourselves, but rather to turn our efforts outward. Feelings of depression can often be solved when the sufferer takes the focus off himself and puts it on Christ and others.
Clinical depression is a physical condition that must be diagnosed by a physician. It is not caused by unfortunate life circumstances, nor can the symptoms be alleviated by one’s own will. Contrary to what some in the Christian community believe, clinical depression is not always caused by sin. Depression can sometimes be a disorder that needs to be treated with medication and/or counseling. Of course, God is able to cure any disease or disorder. However, in some cases, seeing a doctor for depression is no different than seeing a doctor for an injury.
There are some things that those who suffer from depression can do to alleviate their anxiety. They should make sure that they are staying in the Word, even when they don’t feel like it. Emotions can lead us astray, but God’s Word stands firm and unchanging. We must maintain strong faith in God, and hold even tighter to Him when we undergo trials and temptations. The Bible tells us that God will never allow temptations into our lives that are too much for us to handle (1 Corinthians 10:13). Although being depressed is not a sin, one is still responsible for how he responds to his affliction, including getting the professional help he needs. “With Jesus’ help, let us continually offer our sacrifice of praise to God by proclaiming the glory of his name” (Hebrews 13:15).
health and wealth gospel which is sinful and an abomination!
tell this to alzhimer families and others with dementia…(neurological disorders).in these conditions and others depresion is secondary. just gets you off the hook of reaching out to others…which is laziness, which i might add is a sin. and tell that to all of those
who are depreesed carrying out life responsibly with or without medication. just be careful and not so smug because the LORD has ways of placing in your path just those things which you so clearly had
tied up in a neat little package. and you wonder why the man who shot 10 innocent amish children hid it so well…he was sinning…it is not that simple.
What is interesting to me is that there are several examples of people in the bible that experienced classic examples of major depression, and yet God did not refer to those situations as sin. An example: Elijah, textbook definition — sense of hopelessness — he thought he was the only prophet of God left, Jezebel was after him to kill him, and he wanted to simply lay down, curl up in a ball and die. His words “I have had enough, Lord … take my life,” he laid down and went to sleep under a broom tree, yet another sign of depression. And God ministered to him by waking him to provide him with food and drink … and then after a time … God called him to witness the miraculous, gave him new information or insight into his situation, and then gave him a course of action. Other examples of people that dealt with depression in the Bible … Jonah, Hagar, Leah, and David just to name a few. So here’s a thought, God will even use a depressed person, who is willing to be used by Him. God is the author of all human emotion, hence our being made in His likeness.
It seems to me that all to many of us do not have a problem pointing out what we believe to be the sin of others, when we have a tree hanging from our own faces, yet we attempt to remove a speck from the eye of our brother. Why not remove your own tree, and see clearly, through bloodstained glasses, before offering “pious” and empty words of wisdom.
I think Psalm 88 is a wonderful example of “a man after God’s own heart” as he dealt with what appears to possibly be a major depressive episode in his life.
Hey there,
This is a very touchy subject indeed. I can’t say that I side completely on either side. I’ll tell you the truth of the situation in my own life: I live with (not suffer from, because many of these things are as much a blessing as a hardship) ADHD and an overly analytical mind. I think a lot of people who are “depressed” are actually sensitive to their surroundings, have ADD or ADHD, are very analytical, or have high intelligence. Any of these can lead to depressing thoughts, especially ADHD and deep thinking. I don’t believe anyone in this argument has had enough research in the subject to say that depression is or isn’t a sin. I believe people are offended by the thought that depression is a sin, but that’s probably a feeling of conviction.
Understand that I’m an English teaching major in my college and I love the semantics of a word. I enjoy understanding exactly what a word means. I believe people are mistaking depression for many other disorders and mental conditions. Most of the people claiming to live with depression don’t really have depression, just as most people claiming to have ADHD don’t have ADHD. A person can be very happy and function normally with ADHD and with depression. I function normally with ADHD because I was never on medication and didn’t find out until college that I have ADHD. This allowed me to understand how to use the mental condition to my benefit.
In the same way, I work with a counselor at a camp who deals with maldepression. The way she handles this condition is by always being around people and constantly showing love through touch and a smile. You would be amazed how much of a difference a lot of hugs and simple touches (pats on the back, tapping someone, backrub, holding on to someone, etc) can make a difference. I tell you the truth, I have a lot of depressing thoughts and the way that it changed at camp was by being touched. Most Americans are “depressed” because they won’t allow anyone to touch them. That’s your own fault and you need to get past that attitude. We’re called Gringos in Latin America for a reason. People there don’t seem very depressed, even when living in shanties made of cardboard and mattresses, yet here we are with our fancy living, feeling more depressed than any other nation. Man up, it’s your own faults.
“Woah is me!” “You don’t know what it’s like!” Yeah I do know what it’s like because a common characteristic for ADHD, high IQ, and an overly analytical mind is a depressing thought behavior. I know exactly what it’s like. I’d consider ADHD even worse than constant “medical” depression because I get mood swings an awful lot. Have you noticed how my writing suddenly changed in this? I can go from a manic high to down in the dumps and then to numb and then to happy in a matter of 10 minutes. That confuses you worse than a constant feeling.
Most depression is a result of sin and from lack of real relationships. I saw someone write earlier that they are in the word, having a bible study and in fellowship a lot. I got something for a rebuttle: BE REAL! Stop faking who you are, allow people to know you, allow people to touch you and try to find something good in life. If you can’t find anything good, if you can’t at all rejoice over anything, then you either haven’t allowed God to do much work in your life, aren’t doing what you’re gifted at or what you’re passionate about, or maybe you haven’t really allowed the spirit to dwell in you. I’m not saying you haven’t allowed God to work in your life, but maybe you should analyze what he’s done and what you’ve done. If your private lifestyle doesn’t match up with your church lifestyle and you’re in a lot of sin, you need to change, because that shows that you haven’t been saved.
I get depressed a lot and a lot of the time it’s because I’m comparing myself to other believers (SIN), feeling like I’m not doing enough for the Kingdom of God (Conviction), or because I’ve done something I know I shouldn’t have done (SIN). Not all depression is sin, but for the most part, sin is the cause of depression. You can deal with depression if you allow God to work on it. Someone said they don’t believe that prayer will change their depression. That is a LACK OF FAITH! If you don’t believe God can change you then your prayers aren’t prayers at all. To pray you need some sort of faith in the area. God can do anything. If you think likewise, you should probably analyze your “faith.”
That’s all I’ve got on depression
I agree with Erick in that I can’t say with certainty that I side with Group A or Group B. But let me tell you what I KNOW about depression from the standpoint of someone whose bi-polar mother od’d, and whose had many family members diagnosed with clinical depression. I have a brother who has been married to a bi-polar/personality disorder wife for 20 years. They are both born again believers. She had a horrid upbringing but she continues to blame her sinful behaviour on her “disease” of depression which is caused by her abuser. Because she has had 20 years of psychiatrists and psychologists (some Christian, some not) agreeing her that she is this way because of the abuses committed against her, she has been suckered into that fatalistic and very worldly view that “This is just who I am”.
“I can’t help it, I’m sick”, she says. No, a diagnoses of clinical depression does not get you a “Get out of jail free” card, when you go into a hospital and have extra-marital affairs. What my brother said to me once really stuck a chord of truth and ever since then, every time I hear it, it makes sense. Keep in mind our mother was in and out of hospitals and frequently “running away” amid other sinful behaviour- and yes, she was a very loving and nurturing mother, (when she wasn’t depressed and running away)and we all still love and miss her very much (25 yrs later). My brother put it very plainly, “Depression is caused by two things, Sin and Guilt; it’s a never ending cycle for the person with depression. When one DECIDES and acts on ending that cycle by stopping the sin, then he/she is not consumed with the guilt, therby ending that horrible cycle.
I am an ordained minister, as is my mother, and my family operate and own a church. We have all suffered from depression, as well as other immediate family, and we believe that depression/bi-polar disorder/or any other brain disorder is mostly inherited. Situations can cause depression, like the loss of a loved one. Is depression sin? No. Jesus never said in the word, “Depression is sin!” The ten commandments never said, “Thou shalt not be depressed!” People who come on message boards and create websites stating that depression is sin pushes more people away from Christ than towards it. I have spoke to so many folks about why they do not go to church and comments like that above is one reason as to why. The judgements one passes upon another to say that involuntary depression/brain disorders is a ’sin’ pushes people away from church because of being judged. I have suffered from depression my whole life, as far back as I can remember, and I pray a lot, have a prayer closet, speak aloud scripture, pray for my enemies, and ask for forgiveness daily for any sins I may have commited, knowingly or unknowingly. I have to take a myriad of medications to help control my depression. I never stop praying though, or believing, that God loves me. It is people like you, people who judge and make themselves judges of others, that cause many a good Christian to ‘fall away’ from the faith. Not once did it say in the word that depression was sin. Not once. Yet, there are those on this site and others preaching this as gospel. It says in the word not to add anything to the scriptures. That is a sin. For those who have added and said that depression is sin just added their beliefs to scripture, which is against God’s very request that none should do that. If depression is sin why was no sin found in Job after he sat in ashes and picked his sores… depressed to such an extreme how can anyone define… why was he blameless and found to be without sin? It says in the bible there is a time to laugh and a time to cry… people cry because they are sad and depressed. One day all of those who preach to others that depression is sin will have to answer to God one day during judgement. Not only will you have to answer to adding to his word, but also answer in regards to all the individuals you have lied to and burdened with false doctrine. Even Jesus himself was deeply troubled as his crusifiction grew near. This world is a fallen world and it is only natural for God loving individuals to find themselves depressed when faced with the sins of the world. If you ask me, it would worry me more to encounter someone who is happy and full of joy during such death, poverty, war, and oppression because wouldn’t Satan be thrilled about all of those things? Those hardships would not sadden Satan. But for those who love God it does sadden us to know there will be lost souls, people who will die in wars, those afflicted by poverty, those who do not know of God’s merciful grace. Even Jesus experienced a burdened spirit and HE was sinless. God at one point regretted making humans because we had become so sinful. Isn’t regret akin to depression? When we regret something don’t we mourn its presence/and or its loss? Of course we do. Depression is not a weakness, it can be situational or inherited, but it does show one thing… that one can still feel and that one has a heart. Every depressed person I have ever met was super-sensitive to others needs and caring too. But yet, we have these people on this list who call themselves christians who preach to others that depression is sin… to say such things without remourse or caring only shows that depression isn’t sin because most depressed persons feel others pain, mourn for others, and comfort others because they can emphathize with them. If you who have never experienced true sorrow how can you truly comfort those individuals who are most in need? I believe there is a calling for those who suffer from depression in a devine work here on earth. It’s because WE have a heart. Depression is NOT sin and if anyone says it’s scriptural is lying to you. Can those who are depressed sin? Yes, of course. So can super happy people who say they have never been depressed in their lives. I have encountered a person who was not depressed but also didn’t believe in God. He was HAPPY! He was a happy person living in his sin. Anyone can sin, whether they are happy or sad, Christian or not a Christian, so who is to judge if depression is sin? I actually had one arrogant pastor pray for me who said (without knowing me at all) that unforgiveness in my heart is what made me have liver problems. This man did not even know me. Everyone stood over me and looked at me with condemnation because I caused myself to have liver problems at that time. Do you want to know what the REAL truth was? I had surgery to remove a tumor/ovary and the drugs they gave me inflamed my liver and caused my liver to swell up and my cells to die off. I was sick for a year. But the arrogant, know it all pastor who stood looking at me and said SIN was my reason for being sick… was sadly mistaken. He will have to answer for that one day. He hurt me terribly. But you know what? That very attitude of the devil, not of God, and the people who are preaching that depression/illness is a sin… well, that isn’t of God. Please, people, do not believe the indivudals on this list who say that depression is sin. God loves you and even God’s people get sick, sad, and someday die. Read Job. Read about Jesus being troubled when he faced his death. Let God be your teacher, not fallen man. Read the scripture and ask God for HIS advice, not arrogant men. I believe we are living in the end times and there will be those who wear sheeps clothing and pretend to be for God. Beware, because they are ravenous wolves. Read the scripture, pray, and seek God. Learn from your depression as Job and Jesus did. God does love you! And to those who are spreading this false doctrine… I will pray for you and for all of those you have wounded because of it.
I got an e-mail of the last reply and I don’t know if that means that it was intended to be at me, but I didn’t say that depression is a sin. I did say that depression, very often is a result of sin. I do believe that there is a chemical imbalance that causes chronic depression and a lifelong battle with it, but I do think that there’s a lot less people with that than America is willing to claim. I do believe that most people don’t have that sort of depression, but a holding back of repentance. I’m not to say that you, Dede don’t have clinical depression and I never said that that’s a sin. The Pharisees believed that someone born with blindness is at fault of some sin, but we know that’s not true from scripture. I didn’t add anything to scripture, so if you say I did, then you’re a liar. All I said was that most of the time it is a result of someone’s sin, not a clinical form of depression which needs to be treated with meds. No, not at all. I agree with you about the whole Job thing. I just believe that a lot of depression comes from conviction and sin, that’s all.
My comment was in reply to everything I have read on this site thus far, not aimed at one person in general. There is simply way too many post to target one individual. Furthermore, if you say that most depression is caused by sin then by definition you are saying depression is sin, because you believe unconfessed sin caused it. If something causes sin then it in itself must be sin. Therefore you are saying, in a twisted form, that depression is sin.
I do not believe that most people who suffer from depression have unconfessed sin in their lives. Interestingly enough, most the individuals I know with depression are Christian’s who are spirit filled individuals working hard for Christ. I disagree and we will have to agree to disagree on this matter.
By the way… where is it in scripture that most depression is caused by unconfessed sin? Where did Jesus say that? Did Jesus ever say that unconfessed sin caused depression? I have read my bible and nowhere in scripture does it say that unconfessed sin causes depression. Can sin in general cause depression? Certainly, but so can not getting enough sleep. Does that mean that most people who don’t get enough sleep or have insomnia have unconfessed sin? No.
Most of the individuals I have met suffering with depression are some of the most self-effacing people I know of who are willing to admit their shortcommings and ’sins’. It is the Christian who thinks they are perfect and living above reproach who are quick to judge someone who is having a hard time in life. I have met so many Chrisitan’s who think that individuals suffering a trial must have deserved it, that somehow they did something that brought the heartache, pain, or sickness to them. We read about people like that even in the bible. It is those who oppress the weak and downtrodden… depressed/oppressed.
Satan’s job on this earth is to steal, kill and destroy. Look what he did to Job. Who do you think Satan is going after? He is going after the saved to turn their hearts from God, not the already fallen who worship him already. Christian’s seem to have more trouble with depression, from what I can tell, than non-Christian’s. Satan wants to see God’s people fall. In the bible it warns us to be prepared, to be watchful, to be prudent and innocent. Why is that? Because Satan is out and about to oppress the world, more importantly the believers in Christ, in his attempt to turn our hearts away from God.
All I know is that regardless how hard Satan tries to oppress me with sadness, I want to live for Jesus. Am I perfect? No. I have sinned in my life but it isn’t unrepented sin. I hide nothing from God and speak to him as freely in regards to my shortcommings as I speak freely with you now.
Do you remeber the words ‘reprobate minds’? People in the bible who were taken to lust and ’sin’ were taken over with reprobate minds. At that point they were drunk with their own sins. To have one it appears you have to enjoy what you are doing that is wrong, finding pleasure in it, happiness with it even and an unwillingness to repent of their sins. The last time I checked people who suffer from depression are lacking happiness and find little pleasure, the oppossite of a reprobate mind… a mind turned to sin.
I understand what you are saying. You are simply saying that you believe most people with depression are suffering from depression because of conviction and sin. I disagree, because most the people I have met with depression are Christian’s who are trying to ‘live right’. I simply believe you are wrong about your assumption and unless you can find a scripture or two to back up that most with depression have unconfessed sin and conviction in their lives… I will not be swayed to believe otherwise.
If it is true that unconfessed sin and conviction of sin causes depression then why are so many non-Christian’s/pagans/atheists/and ’sinners’ are having so much fun in their sins? Why are they so ‘happy’ with their way of life? I have met many individuals who enjoy sinning and have no desire to live for God. One would think that the individuals enjoying their sins would be the ones depressed. My thoughts are… why would Satan bother someone with depression if they are already living for him anyway? No, he’s going to go to God’s people, the ones who DO care about whether they sin or not, and torment them to death with oppression/depression/killing/stealing/and destroying their lives. Why would Satan destroy his own? No, he’s out to destroy the ones who believe. He wants to tear Christ’s family apart. Those are my thoughts. Certainly, there are some folks out there who don’t believe in God and are depressed too.
About the chemical imbalances and such… I am not certain what causes genetic depression. Is it inherited? In my family it appears to be. I don’t always believe what psychiatrists say because most are secular in their thinking. I’ve gone to counseling and my therapist wasn’t a believer yet… she was trying to help me, a believer. Interesting enough, she was actually trying to convince me there was no such thing as angels or demons, etc. After that meeting I took very little of what she said seriously. Talk about Satan doing is darndest to get me to turn away from Christ! He wants to so badly he even sent me an atheist therapist to change my beliefs.
I am concerned about today’s Christian’s. It is due to the atheistic belief system of therapists and psychiatrist who put their trust in these people who say they are trying to heal, but seems more often than not to harm. Most depressed folks I know of are C Christian’s. The idea of Christian’s going to therapists who are atheists concerns me. Can you see what I mean now? I firmly believe that depression is Satan’s attack on the Christian community. When we go to our doctors and complain of being depressed the doctors send us to therapists who put us on meds that make us less likely to think for ourselves and then… that’s when they try to brainwash us into thinking there is no God and that there is something wrong with us for believing in God. I speak of this from experience. This has happened to me.
When I told my therapist I believed in angels and demons she said I was psychotic and made a note to my doctor that I needed an anti-psychotic medication. She was ‘offended’ that I believed in God and she was hateful, then went on her way writing that prescription. Satan has many tools that he uses to harm Christian’s. I am worried about Christian’s today. I really am. That’s why I disagree with you, my friend. I my own experience it isn’t sin causing the depression… it’s Satan oppressing God’s people to try and turn our hearts from Christ.
With blessings -
“If something causes sin then it in itself must be sin. Therefore you are saying, in a twisted form, that depression is sin.”
Oh, that’s definitely twisting what I said, so you’re correct in that. I didn’t say that depression is sin. I said that much depression is the causality of sin and conviction. I’m not saying that depression is sin, but often occurs from sin and conviction because I know I can do better. By the way, all those pagans you’re talking about who aren’t depressed…talk to some of my friends who aren’t believers. Just because they have fun with their sin doesn’t take away depression. They try to blanket their depression, self-medicating with any source of pleasure that they can find, which more often than not, leaves them even more dry than they were before.
Don’t say that all psychology is pagan either. I get night terrors and it is not a source of a demonic presence as some might think. It’s simply that I get night terrors for some reason beyond myself. I’ve narrowed it down to lack of sleep, stress, or diet, or all three being the factor. I follow after God more now than I ever did in high school, but I still get them and they aren’t mentioned in scripture. I want you to know that night terrors are not nightmares. No, I get up screaming, running to whoever I can find because I’m in such fear of whatever it is in my sleep. It’s a hallucination really. That’s not a result of sin though. It’s simply to do with my psyche and even the Godliest man I know says it’s probably my diet or something. Psychiatry and psychology are not evil and only narrow minded people believe they are. Granted many of them are atheists, but most “Christians” aren’t Christians either.
I’m not judging you for depression either. I deal with a lot of depression myself because I’m alone a lot of the time and I have time to think about a lot of things. When you’re as self-analytical as I am, which becomes a sin as I compare myself to others, then it’s dangerous when you’re alone that much. I become overwhelmed by this depression and I become lethargic, just giving up, which in turn makes me susceptible to sin because I don’t focus on God as much as on the problem I’m dealing with. My mind is off Christ at those times and I give up.
I do agree that you can be a very devout believer and have depression. Joy is not happiness. Jesus calls us to be joyful, not happy. American Christians have fused the two together and confused themselves, which isn’t Satan’s work, but the flesh’s work. Don’t forget that your flesh and my flesh is the root of most sin, not Satan. My spirit is willing, but my flesh is weak, as is yours. To believe likewise is complete pride, which is sin. All I’m saying is that the feeling of depression is just that; a feeling. Many people feel depressed after they’ve committed sins or been convicted because they know how much they’ve offended God. It’s the FEELING they get when that happens.
Now about that thing where you said Satan sent you an atheist therapist. I’m not so certain you were handed that therapist by Satan because it sounds like you seeked therapy yourself. Don’t blame Satan for everything because our flesh is pretty responsible and Satan is not omnipresent. I believe that he doesn’t even have to do much work at all in America because we are so watered down from the true Gospel. Just read “Road to Reality” by K.P. Yohannen and you will understand what I mean. The point is our flesh usually seeks out the things that get in the way, not a demonic presence. All I’ve got blame is myself for most of my wrongdoings, not any part of Satan’s army. That’s all I’ve got.
-With Blessing as well.
My answers will be in parentheses:
“If something causes sin then it in itself must be sin. Therefore you are saying, in a twisted form, that depression is sin.”
Oh, that’s definitely twisting what I said, so you’re correct in that. I didn’t say that depression is sin.
(I wasn’t trying to twist your words, but it is how I interpreted what you said).
By the way, all those pagans you’re talking about who aren’t depressed…talk to some of my friends who aren’t believers. Just because they have fun with their sin doesn’t take away depression. They try to blanket their depression, self-medicating with any source of pleasure that they can find, which more often than not, leaves them even more dry than they were before.
(Certainly, there are those who are pagans who blanket their depression, but not all of them do drugs, etc. I think here again it is an individual thing.)
Don’t say that all psychology is pagan either.
(I never said all psychology is pagan. I had one therapist, who has since retired after 30 years of working in the field, who was a devout Christian and well known in the community. Unfortunately, there aren’t many like him covered by my insurance.)
I get night terrors and it is not a source of a demonic presence as some might think.
(I have night terrors. I know what they are like. Some people think they are demonic in nature, but here again it is individual opinion and interpretation. I underwent a sleep study and found out I pop in and out of stage 1 and stage 3 sleep. I had 100 awakenings in eight hours. It is why I woke up and heard things that weren’t there, etc. I was still alseep, basically, dreaming and such but coming awake again I would hear things. After my sleep study it made a lot of sense to me, as I only have this night terrors or early morning terrors when I am in bed… and supposedly sleeping. It is a sleeping condition, as well as a psychological condition as well, or both.)
Psychiatry and psychology are not evil and only narrow minded people believe they are. Granted many of them are atheists, but most “Christians” aren’t Christians either.
(I do not believe psychiatry is evil. I wanted to be a therapist and that was my dream for many years. I never pursued that, but instead became a life coach and ordained minister. I believe that therapy is very helpful. But a therapist who tries to change my faith system is crossing a boundary with me, the patient. I do believe that Satan can influence those around us and that is why it warns us in the word to be careful of wolves in sheeps clothing. Here again, it’s my interpretation and personal belief system.)
I’m not judging you for depression either. I deal with a lot of depression myself because I’m alone a lot of the time and I have time to think about a lot of things. When you’re as self-analytical as I am, which becomes a sin as I compare myself to others, then it’s dangerous when you’re alone that much. I become overwhelmed by this depression and I become lethargic, just giving up, which in turn makes me susceptible to sin because I don’t focus on God as much as on the problem I’m dealing with. My mind is off Christ at those times and I give up.
(Currently I have been going through a depression, but during this time I have heavily sought the word and talking to God. I think everyone reacts differently. Are there certain times I react differently… yes, of course. But during this tough faze in my life I have turned to the word and prayer even more. I think in all things we can lose our focus from God, no matter what it is. I mean, tv and computers, books, etc. can take us away from thinking of God. Anything can be a culprit, really… even depression.)
I do agree that you can be a very devout believer and have depression. Joy is not happiness. Jesus calls us to be joyful, not happy.
(I thought being joyful was happy, according to what I thought was in the dictionary. I won’t argue over the meaning of a word though.)
American Christians have fused the two together and confused themselves, which isn’t Satan’s work, but the flesh’s work. Don’t forget that your flesh and my flesh is the root of most sin, not Satan.
(You see, that is where I disagree. I believe both flesh and Satan have influences in our lives. I suppose it all depends on how you interpret the scriptures and what your personal belief system is. I believe Satan can influence people. Satan does have power. He is real. But here again, that is my personal opinion and interpretation of the word.)
My spirit is willing, but my flesh is weak, as is yours. To believe likewise is complete pride, which is sin.
(I agree. There have been many times in my life where my spirit was willing but my flesh was weak. I am certain many Christian’s sin because of their flesh. But I also believe that Satan plays an integral part in sin because he is out to tempt us to sin, like in garden of eden. Whether we realize it or not, he is out there tempting us and causing us pain and suffering. Here again, another personal view.)
All I’m saying is that the feeling of depression is just that; a feeling. Many people feel depressed after they’ve committed sins or been convicted because they know how much they’ve offended God. It’s the FEELING they get when that happens.
(When I was a little girl I never knew why I was depressed. I just was. Even when everything in my life was going right, I felt depressed. I believe some individuals inherit the disorder. I don’t know if it’s a deficiency in the body, a chemical imbalance, etc. but my depression has always been there. I can identify usually when my depression is caused by sin because there is conviciton if that is the case. Otherwise, I am just confused why it is present in my life. I have asked God to forgive me during those times, just in case there was something I did that I wasn’t aware of.)
Now about that thing where you said Satan sent you an atheist therapist. I’m not so certain you were handed that therapist by Satan because it sounds like you seeked therapy yourself. Don’t blame Satan for everything because our flesh is pretty responsible and Satan is not omnipresent.
(I never blamed Satan for everything. Certainly there are sins of the flesh caused by our own flesh, but I don’t want to lessen the reality that Satan is out and about causing pain and harship. That’s his job, so to speak. It’s what he does. I don’t blame him for everything, however. My therapist was on a list of people that my insurance said they would cover. I picked her because of that. I knew nothing about her. Nothing. I didn’t choose her because of her personality. I chose her because my insurance covered her services. I do believe that Satan can draw people into our lives to trip us up, especially when we are struggling. Again, it’s my personal opinion and how I interpret the scriptures.)
I believe that he doesn’t even have to do much work at all in America because we are so watered down from the true Gospel. Just read “Road to Reality” by K.P. Yohannen and you will understand what I mean. The point is our flesh usually seeks out the things that get in the way, not a demonic presence. All I’ve got blame is myself for most of my wrongdoings, not any part of Satan’s army. That’s all I’ve got.
(When I was a girl I was abused sexually by certain family members. I witnessed abuse on many levels and because of that abuse I suffer from night terrors, depression, and mental woes that I can’t possibly convey in words on this list. The reason I mention this is because I do believe that a demonic presence was responsible for the horrid things I experienced growing up. Was what happened simply the result of someones flesh being corrupt? I think the flesh certainly plays a part, but I also believe that Satan did as well. Here again, I believe that we are in a spiritual warfare and just because we can’t see Satan and his fallen angels around us causing influence, etc… doesn’t mean he isn’t there contributing to some extent. Here again, it’s my interpretation and opinion but I feel it is correct. I remember back to when Jesus was betrayed and it said as they sat at the table that Satan, at the time Jesus said one of them would betray him, that Satan at that moment entered Judas and he went to betray Jesus then. Satan ‘went’ into Judus. I don’t know… I just believe that spiritually we aren’t aware of what is going on in that other realm, the realm we can’t see, and we would be amazed if we could see it and what we would find there. Again, a matter of interpretation and opinion. I am one of those Christian’s who struggle with my flesh every day and have sinned and did things I wish I never had done. I take responsibility for my actions but I do believe that Satan can influence people and it’s why prayer is so important, especially during times of temptation. I believe that Satan knows how to push our buttons. He knows our weaknesses and uses that against us. But here again, it’s my opinion. It has been nice debating this issue with you. I enjoyed it. However I am tired and must now return to bed where my husband awaits for me. Good night and blessings to you as well.)
I am glad you were able to see this as a debate and not an argument because argumentation gets us nowhere. I do see how Satan could have been involved in certain areas that I thought otherwise. I did not know the background for the reason that you went to the therapist and I did not know the background of your life etc. This has definitely been an interesting debate. I am deeply sorry for what happened to you when you were younger, as no child deserves for such things to happen to them. You see, it hurts me so much when I hear of that in someone’s past because I love children and I desire to finish up my education to become and English teacher. I want to be involved in kids’ lives and give them some sort of shining hope through Christ.
The only thing I am more confused about now is why I get night terrors so badly because I never had a certain traumatic experience when I was younger. I had very loving parents and they protected me from anyone who might do such things as what you were talking about happening to you. Perhaps it’s just an overactive mind. I literally get out of my bed screaming, running wherever there are people or there is light. I’ve actually hurt myself pretty badly in the night terrors and it’s a damper on the next day as I’ve lost so much rest.
I do see that you were coming from certain things at different angles than I was and that truly changes the meaning. This has been an enjoyable debate and I know we can at least agree that depression in itself is not sin.
Have you ever considered a sleep study? You simply could be having night terrors because you have interupted stages of sleep, like myself. They recommended a c-pap machine for me, but told me that they were not certain if it would help with my kind of condition. Unfortunately I never could adapt to the machine. I need to try it again for awhile.
My husband use to have night terrors, swinging his arms and kicking his legs and serious nightmares. He would wake up all during the night, sometimes screaming and scaring me to death. I encouraged him to do the sleep study and he found out he had sleep apnea. Ever since he started on the machine five years ago he no longer screams in his sleep, kicks his legs and swings his arms, and sleeps soundly throughout the night. The lack of oxygen he was getting at night caused his unusual sleeping behavior. Once he got enough air at night it went away. Most insurance companies pay 100% for this test. I think if you display those symptoms I would seriously consider a sleep study to determine what could be causing the problems. You don’t have to be overweight to have sleep apnea, hyponeas, or stage sleep conditions.
One of the reasons I mentioned the problems with therapy is because when I disucssed my sleeping issues and noises I heard and such they prescribed a anti-psychotic medication without doing any further testing to determine if something else could be the problem. Once I got that sleep study (I went to see a neurologist who did numerous tests to see if what I was experiencing was in deed a mental problem or phsyical problem) and that is when I found out I had a sleeping problem. I wasn’t psychotic. I had a sleeping condition. This kind of misdiagnosis from therapists and psychiatrists worry me because those drugs can cause serious health problems and permanant brain damage. I just think they need to rule out all other causes before writing prescriptions. Usually, they will talk to you five minutes and write a prescription, without even considering vitamin deficiency, thyroid problems, sleep problems, etc. So many individuals are diagnosed with stigmatizing conditions that they probably don’t even have because doctors fail to rule out any other cause.
I woud really like to encourage you to consider a sleep study. It could be the root of your problem and a sleeping medication could help you reach and stay in stage 3 sleep. If you have sleep apnea then a c-pap machine would take care of the problem for you. I have found, when talking with most folks, that usually a lot of mental issues is from diet, lack of sleep or sleeping problems, or just simply too much stress or being overextended. Doctors are so quick to write a prescription and not as quick to get to the root of the problem. I really do believe a sleep study could be beneficial.
If you have any questions about the procedures of a sleep study I’d be more than happy to tell you the procedure of one. Again, your symtpoms sound a lot like my husbands before his diagnosis of sleep apnea. It’s worth checking it out, especially if you want to find a solution to your night terrors. My husband sleeps like a baby now, calm and peaceful throughout the night. Let me know what you decide and if you do it, what you find out. I’m really curious to know.
Have a great day!
I have dealt with anxiety and depression for at least half of my life. The things that happened to me when I was young, no they were not my sin… and they left pieces behind that I battle every day to not be hurt or angry or bitter.
I know that in honestly confronting this latest series of issues, I have come to the realization that if I truly am honest, that I have a sin issue. An issue of the heart…
I dwell on things and give in to thoughts that pull down, instead of lift up, most of the time without realizing I’m doing it at the time.
I give in repeatedly to sins such as overindulging, whether it be food, or shopping.
I fall often into sexual sin.
I know that in my heart of hearts, there is a part of me that says I deserve all of these things, and these things will make me happy. I trust in something other than God for my happiness, and then am depressed when I lose it, or even when I get it, and it still isn’t enough.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am saved, and will be with Jesus in his father’s house… but still I don’t always feel it.
If someone has lung cancer and they smoked a pack a day… we would see the connection. I believe that we are feeding so much junk into our minds that because the world says it’s normal and okay, we think can’t hurt us. It can…
From the way of thinking we learn by watching television at a young age… that teaches us how much we deserve, or how much better things would be if we only had this toy, or that beer…
To the constant barrage of interaction we see that is contrary to God’s will, and we do it without thinking about it, until someone puts a mirror in our face.
I know a lot of this may not make sense, it’s late, and I’m tired.
My life circumstances, and my body’s chemistry have made me more prone to certain though patterns… but I know that the choices I make are my own.
Everyy time I skip on prayer because I feel God is disappointed with me..
Every time I don’t open the word because I feel condemned…
Every time I indulge in that one fantasy, or that one thought of envy or regret…
I am letting evil have control of my mind…
And evil is keeping me from the one thing that I need… His presence.
Fight back… Feed on every word of God… Watch your thoughts, and retrain them according to God’s will. It’s not easy, and I fall constantly… but He’s there to pick me up and restore me.
In His name
- a sister in Christ
I read your blog with interest. I suffer from depression, and agree that the depression is a sign that something is not right in my life. However, as a child I got depression over things that I had no control over eg. my parent’s divorce, therefore I don’t think God would hold me responsible for my own depression, the depression did arise from a sin (not my own in this case). In my adult life I often see depression arising from a series of mistakes that I have made (especially bad choices where I have placed my hearts desire in the wrong things) - but not always. The challenge as a Christian is to overcome the depression, and God truly wants us to understand, fight back and overcome depression. I always hold the image of God meeting us in our sin, not judging us but forgiving us and healing.
To those of you saying that the concept of depression being sin based is ridiculous, please read my testimony. I was “depressed”, after watching commercials and noting the symptoms I came to that conclusion yet took little solstice. I looked at the reasons that were causing my “depression” and found that my circular thinking caused by my major financial difficulties, poor personal relationships, desires for worldly objects and societies definition of happiness the bar kept being pushed further away. I finally turned to God not medicine and found that in reading the scriptures I understood what my desires were doing to me. I understood that God placing my woes upon me was actually a sign from Him that I was capable. Knowing that He loved me was enough to bring me out of my funk. I’m not saying it was easy but I was diagnosed with what some say is a disorder others an illness yet without meds I’m fine. The things we want destroy us as the bar moves further and further away, yet with my Heavenly Father by my side I can sit here and tell you that I know the tribulations of an unsteady mind yet through Him and knowing all that He promised is there if I ask for it I no longer fight the urge to end it all. We as humans are bound by what we think we understand, we don’t research it ourselves we are told. I now know that depression is a position but by foregoing our expectations and living for God there’s no reason to feel or think the way I used to. Take from it what you will but know that depression is a creation of a distant society that profits heavily from medication. God bless you all and for those of you suffering turn to His word ask for His forgiveness and prepare yourself to let go of the things that get you down. His guidance will suffice, He promised us all He would never leave us so don’t leave Him.
I totally agree that depression is a sin. My mom gave me it - she was sooo sinful- she couldn’t cope - so she got born again - and dumped her sin on me
As a womanstruggling with depression, I would like to hear of any Christian ministry run ina local fellowship to support and encourage those battling with this exhausting condition.I would like to know what can be helpful ina group setting. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Hi Gwen,
Initially you need to right yourself with the Lord. Identify the things that trouble you most and make a list. Accept Christ Jesus as your personal Saviour and ask for his forgiveness. Acknowledge that he died for our sins, take the time to place yourself in His presence it can be exhausting in itself but it is the only way. Really focus on all those things that get you down- your triggers per say and ask God to reveal them to you in their true form. The key Gwen, is that your one true focus is not your issues or struggles but God himself. Don’t ignore your problems, give them to the Lord. Read an online Bible and pray about that which troubles you do a search on encouragement and faith scriptures. I found these so amazingly helpful and refreshing and when you realize your problems only strengthen you Gwen if you weren’t strong and empowered you wouldn’t be here. God and I love you Gwen and if you feel like chatting feel free to send me an email. I would be honored to help you as I am the Thomas whose post is mentioned just above. I have suffered and conquered by the Grace of the Lord Almighty. Gwen I would like to hear from you just to confirm you recieved these words. camerone1863 is my email feel free to contact me and I can offer you some of the things that helped me in terms of scripture and support. God Bless you Gwen.
Lord, You are the Holiest of holies, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. You sent your only begotten Son to die for our sins so that we may find peace under Your wings in love and forgivenss. I ask Lord that you lift Gwen up Lord and show her the blessings she truly has, show her that her mind is truly sound Lord and crush the stronghold that the devil has Lord. We ask for these things in Jesus name. Amen
Thomas:
I noticed in your post that you said, “prepare yourself to let go of the things that get you down”.
My step-son acting like he wants to hit me and kill me ‘gets me down’, my husband letting him do it ‘gets me down’, my husband’s family treating me and my family badly ‘gets me down’, my own family who have abused me for ages ‘gets me down’ and friends who say they are friends and really are not ‘gets me down’. If I let go of the things that get me down… I would have no husband, no stepson, no friends, and no family.
I read the bible a lot, ask forgiveness all the time, search the scriptures, pray, etc. and I am still depressed and have been since I was a little girl. My depression is a medical condition mainly. However there are things in my life that ‘gets me down’. But I am not willing to give my husband up at this time, nor my friends or my family and the only way to get rid of the problems I speak of is to give him, his son, and his family up. I can’t change them, Thomas.
I can read the bible and pray to God and it won’t change them. I’m miserable because I’m being abused. How is my depression caused by my sin then? We are speaking of what someone else has done to me not what I have done to them. My expectations are not too high either. I am a housewife. I am low maintaince. I rarely buy or do anything for myself. I do not nag my husband. I am not abusive to him or my stepson. I am a very humble person and grateful for the little things. How then is this my problem, my sin? I’m depressed because of the world around me and that world, which is my life, isn’t changing.
I know God loves me, Thomas. But HIS love doesn’t change the abuse I go through. What I would like to see on this posting group is for people to stop grouping all depression into one catagory. I think there is depression that IS caused by sin, depression that IS caused by a BRAIN DISORDER, and depression that IS caused by circumstances that are out of our control.
Not long ago I went to a pastor of a church and asked for prayer letting him know that I was depressed. I told him in confidence. That next weekend he did a sermon that depression was a sin and looked at me and my husband throughout the whole sermon. The next weekend came and he did the same thing. I was devastated because how can one sin against their will?
Thomas… not everyone is grouped into the same catagory. Everyone experiences things in life differently. Not all depression is sin. Is there depression that is caused by sin? Of course. But not all depression is sin. And telling people to just pray to God and believe he loves you and that is the cure is irresponsible and could be very damaging and even dangerous for someone who comes on this posting site looking for help. That person could be praying all the time and a really good person and to read that ‘if only’ they prayed enough, read the bible enough, or believed enough was the cure… it could send someone desperate enough over the edge.
I have found that Christian’s do more damage than good a lot of the time. When my brother was dying of cancer fellow Christian’s would say things like, “God’s punishing him for being such a sinner,” or “If only he believed in God enough he would be cured!” My brother died of cancer and he prayed to God as we all did. He still died. My mother was convinced he would have a miracle healing. He died, Thomas. No amount of praying, reading the bible, etc. cured him… but I guess he just didn’t believe in God enough or he would have been cured of cancer too! The same with depression. If you can cure depression then can you cure cancer? How about diabetes can you cure that too with your ‘therapy’, Thomas?
Like the pastor in my church… talk about being depressed I wanted to die after that! I felt so guilty then for being depressed and couldn’t control it. I thought I was letting God down for not being able to control it. All of you should be more careful of the things you recommend to those who may seriously need more help than ‘pray more’ or ‘believe more’ or ‘give up more’. If it were that easy we all would be cured for all our diseases and infirmities as Christian’s, including myself.
Depression like any other illness can have many causes. We can’t just say all depression is caused by sin. It’s irresponsible and could really put someone in a deep dark depression if they are led to believe they aren’t praying enough, believing enough, sacrificing enough, too selfish, not going to church enough, etc. I know my pastor did that to me and it seriously depressed me even more and did not help one bit.
My mother, who is a preacher, told me to never return to that church again. My whole family suffer from genetic depression. Yes, there is such a thing as genetic depression. The latest PET scans prove a genetic predisposition. Brains from non-depressed people are different from depressed people. I guess sin changes the brain… which sounds really dumb that sin can change the brain. No… genetics change the brain, as does a predisposition for diabetes, cancer, etc.
Before you start claiming the cure maybe you should get up to date about the latest scientific research about brain studies and PET scans. There are medical reasons for depression as well, not just sin alone, demons, oppression, or human frailties, etc. You said you were diagnosed and cured yourself. How long have you been depression free? A few weeks, months, maybe a year or two? Did you know that people get depressed in cycles? Maybe you just cycled out of a depression and here you are claiming a cure. I have done your therapy for years and it didn’t work. Certainly it can help but as with my brother who still DIED from cancer… prayer and bible study and being a good person only get us so far. We all get sick and die someday and get illnesses. Sin isn’t the blame to everything that goes wrong in our life. Maybe some things, but not everything. Life happens to us all, infirmities, hardships, et al. As it says in the BIBLE, “It rains on the just and the unjust” and “there’s a day to laugh and a day to mourn”. There’s a time for everything, even a time to be depressed.
Blessings - Dede
Dede,
I can definitely understand where your coming from and for the most part I agree with you dede. I will say this though…You said and I quote “I can read the bible and pray to God and it won’t change them. I’m miserable because I’m being abused. How is my depression caused by my sin then?”. When you make a statement like that you are undermining Gods ability as we are to thank Him as what we have asked is already done and you telling me it won’t work. You must seek His face and ask Him what it is you can do to change your circumstance in all earnest. You said that I might have cycled out of depression in which case my depression went for 14 years and ended when I should be all the more depressed as my company is close to bankruptcy, I have lost many friends, I am in a huge amount of personal debt, I spent Christmas and my birthday and New Years all alone. The list goes on Dede but I know the harder life tries to get at me the more the Lord has in store for me. You must understand that it could be something you’re eating or many other things but I can assure you that God loves you and would never create an incomplete being. You have everything you need to be happy it’s just a matter of removing yourself from your mind and basing yourself in Gods word. I know there are some Christians out there who run a super hard line and do poorly by those they are supposed to care for. My mother had 8 children and died of brain cancer at the age of 48 years old I don’t hold God responsible because with my limited capacitry as a human to even try and comprehend His ways would almost be an insult to the Most High. She died and left 8 children who had jsut started their lives and needed their mother more than ever but it happened….even though she prayed. You can’t blame events for your lack of faith those events may have been to strengthen those around your brother or many other reasons. You’re using your brothers passing as proof that prayer doesn’t work. You said you don’t WANT to leave those things that abuse you. Then so be it.. you have identified your trigger and refuse to alter the position you place yourself in. Have you spoken to them and told them how you feel? Have you considered life without them? Did it make you feel sick? I had to leave the only family I knew (The French Foreign Legion) because I felt that it was doing me no good as a human being and a Christian. I did not want to leave but it was necessary for me to get to the next stage in my life even though it was not what I wanted nor did it seem possible. We will always be challenged Dede that I agree with but it is who you turn to in your challenge and the spirit in which you turn. Look at your own wording you speak in the negative with no hope stating that prayer will not fix those in your life because it didn’t fix your brother. If you wish to justify your sadness with genetic disposition so be it my father was diagnosed schizophrenic and so was my mother then it turned out my dad had a chemical imbalance due to the food he was eating and he stopped his medication and was fine. My mother was diagnosed with bipolar and it turned out she had tumor the size of a lemon in her brain since she was 6. Medicine is great and it helps many people but we are still battling to understand the concept of mental illness let alone it’s causes to which diet is coming under much more scrutiny than ever before. You say if it were as simple as praying there would be no illnesses or death. Praying doesn’t ensure miracles Dede it ensure that regardless of the circumstance you know it was God who made the decision. Work on your spirit of defeat and start talking as though you have conquered. It will make all the difference Dede. If you feel like discussing things further away from the rest of the forum my email is noted in my post to Gwen.
Lord, I ask that you reveal yourself to Dede in all your glory. That she may be filled and enabled by Your Spirit to see beyond that which is human and see the superhuman. That you are beyond our understanding Lord is not a curse but a blessing, that events that cause us great sadness are not necessarily punishments but lessons even if initially they are beyond comprehension. Send Your love Lord to all those who desire it and fill them with Your conquering spirity letting the weak say they are strong, as said in Your word.
Amen and Amen
Thomas… you are assuming that the Lord hasn’t revealed himself to me. Your post acts as if I’m not saved. You are still acting like you have the answers too. This is what I was speaking about in my previous post that so many Christian’s make things worse when they act like they know everything and believe that if you just pray enough you’ll be healed.
It sounds like you are going through your own tough time in life as well. It is wonderful that you are handling things as well as you have. I am saddened to hear you are having such a rough time. I do hope and pray that your troubles lift and you recover from your loss and better things are to come. I wish you only the best. More about your post…
You do not understand where I am coming from as an individual because you don’t know me individually. Your post acts as if I am ignorent of Gods love, power, and his grace… including the importance of nutrition, et al. You assume I don’t have faith in prayer or that I even blame God for my brothers death. You are very wrong about me my friend.
I do believe in the power of prayer… but I also am a realist. God can heal but sometimes he doesn’t. Just visit a hospital and you will see what I mean. I believe depression is a real medical condition, like cancer or diabetes. Sometimes prayer doesn’t cure things, Thomas. If it did your mother would have lived, my brother would have lived, my grandmother would have lived, et al. I don’t blame God. It’s just life, Thomas. We are born, we live, we die.
Miracle healings can happen, prayer can be helpful, removing sin from ones life can be useful too but… sometimes people are just sick not because they don’t have enough faith, or don’t read enough of the word, or have unconfessed sin… sometimes people are just sick because that is ‘life’. We live in a fallen world where people get sick. Take all the little